It’s 100% fact that the Bahai “Prophet” was on the payroll of one of the most cruel, racist, and thieving Governments (Britain) during its worst period of crime.
Bahai Leader (Bahai ‘Prophet’) Was on the Payroll of the Racist & Imperialistic British Military – The same British that Gandhi had to free India from during its period of enslavement
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Last year, summer of 2011, I attempted to obtain a copy of Abbas Effendi’s knighthood certificate from UK authorities while I was there. Even though this document is supposed to be easily available for public access under UK freedom of information legislation, the run around I was given produced nothing with authorities at the British National Archives who ended up telling me the document was classified. Initially this same British National Archives had told me to write to the offices of the Court of St. James where such documents are kept and this was the response I got from them:
=
Dear Mr. Azal
Thank you for your email, and I apologise that it has taken some time to get back to you.
I confirm that on 31st October 1919 the Central Chancery were advised by the Foreign Office that The King had appointed Mr. Abdul Baha Abbas, Leader and Head of the Bahai Religion in Palestine, to be an Honorary Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire. We have
no further information as to the reasons for this award.
I have spoken to the Honours Secretariat at the Foreign Office; I understand their records are only held for 15 years before being sent to the National Archives so they would be unable to give assistance here. You may yourself like to contact the National Archives at Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU (website http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) in
this connection.
I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.
Rachel Wells
Assistant Secretary
Central Chancery
St James’s Palace
=
My question is why is the British government and establishment keeping this document classified from public scrutiny?
The British government that the Bahai leaders, followers, and family served are the Colonial British Government – It’s fairly embarrassing for them to have to admit that they nurtured a hybrid political movement / religion that took advantage of indigenous people (and continues to do so today) on behalf of Imperial Britain, which was a type of global slave-master in those days. Any one that suggests the Bahai leaders and followers had no other choice obviously has never heard of Gandhi.
The British remain colonial slave masters to this day and some of the most ruthless, cunning operators there are. They are just a little more hidden and careful about wearing their exploitative, imperialist, two-faced malice on their sleeves like they once did – but barely! – then the days when the sun apparently did not set on Britannia. But they essentially remain the same scumbags they always have been, nothing has changed, and the Baha’is today are closer to the British establishment and ruling class then they ever were.
It is really pitiful that supposedly intelligent individuals come up with such crap. Through the Baha’i Faith, me a Cuban, I have come to know and appreciate Islam and their mystic poets. We Baha’is defend Islam and show our friends the beauty and importance of that message. Are you telling me I am not a Muslim, and a Christian, and a Jew. ¡We all come from Allah!
No, you are not a Muslim. And the crap is all your own, César, if that’s even your real name. And so what you’re Cuban? Why is that relevant here? The Haifan Bahai machinery preys on gullible chumps such as you trying to convince you that somehow it is a religion of oneness and peace – when it is actually a cult like Scientology or the Jehovahs Witnesses – while meanwhile it is in bed with criminal Zionists who are murdering and killing innocent Palestinians and taking their land and resources while sticking it to idiots like you and those like you whose money it takes or whose free labor and volunteerism it uses calling it “service to the cause.” Yes, we all come from Allah (swt). But some of us, like the organization you belong to, serve shaytaan and the dajjaal.
You are asleep and brainwashed. Educate yourself a little about the sewer of a creed you belong to before coming here and making yourself look like a glaze eyed fool http://bahaicultfaq.blogspot.com/
Viva Fidel!
I will only say that it is you who should investigate. You must be very young and impulsive. Take it easy. Allah, Islam, Bahá’í not need to be defended. The truth brights by itself. I did not pay attention to what some Christians said about Islam. I investigated and found the beauty in it. I suggest you do the same about the Bahá’í Faith. Buenas noches.
Here is a perfect demonstration of the blind self-righteous arrogance of these Baha’is who have been brainwashed to believe that their detractors are merely ignorant of the tenets of their misguided, satanic, Anglo-American-Zionist controlled and British manufactured creed. I am an ex-Bahai, César. I also happen to have read the texts of your creed in the original Persian and Arabic which I am certain you are incapable of and so have no access to in order to get the full story. Haifan Bahaism is a cult. It began with a bloody schism instigated by your founder, Mirza Husayn ‘Ali Nari Baha’u'Shaytaan, who did not hesitate to murder and assassinate his Babi detractors in cold blood in order to gain the machinery of the Babi organization his younger brother Subh-i-Azal had inherited as the legitimate successor to Siyyid ‘Ali Muhammad Shirazi the Bab. Getting support from British colonialists who were out to gain a firmer foothold inside Iran and the Mid East, your creed then expanded as a result of the material, logistical and ideological support it got from the European imperialist powers. As such your specific Haifan Bahai organization is nothing but a fifth columnist trojan horse and tool of Western colonialist powers in the Mid East.
As for truth: the entire Baha’i doctrine is a badly cobbled together pastiche of ideas taken and watered down from Sufism and the teachings of the Bab. I’ll stick to the original Sufism and the teachings of the Bab himself, thank you very much.
Viva Fidel!
César, it is a confirmed fact that the person Baha’is call a ‘messenger of God’ was on the payroll of Colonial Britain; I updated the post to show what Colonial Britain was in those times. Do you really think a ‘messenger of God’ would take money from Colonial Britain? Remember: Abdu’l Baha’s ties to Colonial Britain are 100% true — there are photos and government records.
By calling “crap” what you wrote I provoked your reaction and I am really sorry for it. This is not the way that supposedly religious individuals should behave.
Yes, my name is César. I just want to mention that while a Christian in Cuba I was suspicious of what the church said about Muhammad and because of that made me investigate. I read a very good book on the life of Muhammad entitled “The Messenger” from a British writer. (I wish I could find a copy of it). After further investigation found it was from God. I did the same with the Bahá’í Faith. If I deny one I will have to deny the other.
I know it is difficult to be objective when one’s heart is attached to a particular position.
I really feel sad that your position is so belligerent.
All the best.
César
You provoked no such thing. I address all members of the Haifan Baha’i organization in the same manner because you are all dangerous brainwashed cultists.
Your arguments here are all very simplistic, and there is nothing divine about Haifan Bahaism whatsoever in any case.
Now why don’t you answer iranianinfo’s question?
Dear César, I understand you are in the Bahai group now. But can you understand — given the Bahai movement’s ties to British Colonialism — that Iran has objections for that reason? Can you understand how it is upsetting and problematic when Iran’s Muslim coreligionists in Occupied Palestine are slaughtered daily by the Israelis while the Bahai’s who have their activities and leadership in Israel say nothing? (E.g., You get upset when your coreligionists are treated in ways that you don’t like.) Do you see these points?
Yes I do see those points. I am really very concerned with the blood that unnecessarily is shed in the world daily. As I mentioned I come from Latin America specifically Cuba and grew up facing injustices.
You don’t want to hear what the Catholic Church and Christians in general said about Islam and Muhammad when I was searching (the tone has diminished lately). The same was mentioned about the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.
As you are well aware, the issue here is not ‘Abdu’l-Bahá (he is not the Bahá’í Prophet) but the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. They claimed to have a revelation from God and that is an anathema for the leaders of Islam and you know why. That is the real reason for the persecution of Bahá’ís in Iran and other Muslim countries. It is neither a social nor a political issue.
When, in spite of what was said about them and what the minister of the Baptist Church I was attending told me, I investigated further.
I was taken by the new vision that the new Faith presented me.
In a letter that the Báb sent to the Shah of Persia He told Him: “The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover… ”.
I had to decide: or the Báb was totally mad or He might be right. He was a young of 25, which had distinguished himself for His piety and kind manners.
Those words and the explanations he gave about different topics like the “day of resurrection” for example were very striking to me. Totally new meanings, away from the current ones, so difficult to accept for anybody with some training in science, made me dig more into it and finally accept it.
I am just presenting what I consider is the real issue which is the claim of the Báb and not what you called the “Prophet of the Bahá’ís”.
Warmest greetings.
César
The Bab also wrote in the Persian and Arabic Bayans that there wouldn’t be another Manifestation of God equal to him from between 1511 to 2001 years. He appointed Mirza Yahya Nuri Subh-i-Azal to succeed him and told his half-brother, who you call Baha’u'llah, to protect Subh-i-Azal, addressing Baha’u'llah as an inferior in all his correspondences. How do you explain this? You cannot. Per the words of the Bab himself your Baha’u'llah is a false prophet and pretender.
Dear César, As both you and I know Abdu’l Baha is considered a holy messenger by Bahai’s and he is Bahá’u’lláh’s son and chosen leader of Baha’is. So what Abdu’l Baha did is relevant to Iran’s national security. But if you dig deeper, you will find that Mirza Nuri (a/k/a Bahá’u’lláh) did the same types of things that Abdu’l Baha did (I’ll have to post it as another article). Bahá’u’lláh wrote, “Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute.” [Source: Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh. Wilmette, Illinois, USA: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. ISBN 0-87743-187-6.] Bahá’u’lláh did not even understand astrobiology — he thought there was life on other planets! Does that sound like someone who is God’s messenger? I’m Iranian – You are Cuban. Trust me that when I say that the Iranian people (of all faiths) overwhelmingly rejected the Bahai movement and they understand who the Bahai leaders REALLY were, their level of education, where they went to school, their criminal records, and what they wrote in Persian (which is our mother tongue). Start investigating for yourself. I know they’ve pulled you into the movement and it feels good to you — that’s how cults work. And regarding Islam, you don’t need the Bahai faith to learn about that. You can learn on your own if you want. My suggestion is to choose any religion you want — but please, please, please show some healthy skepticism about how the Bahai movement really started, who promoted it and why, and distance yourself from it while you investigate these things for yourself so you have a clear mind. The Bahai movement doesn’t even want people to question its teachings (covenant breaking / shunning) — that’s not normal Cesar. They want you to have an open mind so you are willing to join, but once you are in they want you to close your mind and accept everything they say or be punished. They use a lot of emotional and psychological pressure, and you know this.
Dear friend:
I wasn’t going to write anymore but I decided to reply to the following points in your message:
1) You said correctly:
Bahá’u’lláh wrote, “Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute.” [Source: Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh. Wilmette, Illinois, USA: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. ISBN 0-87743-187-6.]
And then you continued:
Bahá’u’lláh did not even understand astrobiology — he thought there was life on other planets! Does that sound like someone who is God’s messenger?
Well, I wondered about those words and of course questioned myself about them. However, rather recently many new planets have been found and many showing up almost weekly. Up to June this year they have found 786 planets, 778 exo-planets, outside of the solar system. Now we have to find out if there is life in them. Since we have found life on earth under extreme conditions, many scientists consider that there is possibility of finding it, but of course we have to wait.
Please see an excellent diagram of the new planets found at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jun/21/space-exoplanets-graphic-visualisation
And extreme life on earth at: http://www.calacademy.org/exhibits/xtremelife/life_on_earth.php
2) You said:
What the Catholic Church said or didn’t say is not relevant to the national security concerns Iran has in relation to the Bahai-Leadership’s partnering with British Colonialism.
If I mentioned what the Catholic Faith said was only to show the personal struggle I had in order to accept Islam and the Bahá’í Faith. I had to swim against the current.
I can only assure you that we Bahá’is have to obey the laws of the country we live in. It is an article of faith. We don’t go against the government. The reasons for that make sense and are beautiful because it has to do with being honest and not being a hypocrite to anybody. To mention more reasons will make this note very long.
3) You said:
Dear César, As both you and I know Abdu’l Baha is considered a holy messenger by Bahai’s and he is Bahá’u’lláh’s son and chosen leader of Baha’is.
Please, I beg you, to correct this. Abdu’l-Bahá is not considered a holy messenger. The holy messengers are the Báb (October 20, 1819 – July 9, 1850) and Bahá’u’lláh (12 November 1817 – 29 May 1892). The Báb was killed by a firing squad in Tabriz and Bahá’u’lláh died in ‘Akka, Palestine, where He was exiled in August 1868. He didn’t go there by His own will.
Please, I again beg you to note that at that time the area was Ottoman Palestine. It had nothing to do with Israel or Zionism. If the center of the Bahá’í Faith is there is a consequence of that exile.
This earth with all of us inside is a grain of sand in the midst of a huge universe. We have to learn to get together.
All the best,
César
> FOLLOWING THE LAW:
César, you write: “I can only assure you that we Bahá’is have to obey the laws of the country we live in. It is an article of faith. We don’t go against the government.”
If that was universally true Bahá’is would have not disobeyed Iranian law by continuing to proselytize and form governing committees in Iran that take directions from the headquarters in Israel. I will also put a post in the next few weeks which will show some of the political activity of Bahá’i academics against Iran. Some of it may really surprise you: make sure to check back about this.
> LIFE ON OTHER PLANETS:
Bahá’u’lláh wrote, “EVERY planet its own creatures whose numbers man cannot compute.” Even if they found life on 1 other planet (which they have not) it is well known that “every planet” does not have life nor the essential building blocks for life. There’s no way around the fact that his statements don’t measure up to reality.
> GOLD IS MADE BY AGING COPPER:
Bahá’u’lláh also did not understand metallurgy or basic sciences relating to precious metals: In Kitab-i-Iqan or the Book of Certitude, Bahá’u’lláh claims that copper, in a span of 70 years would be converted to gold. Bahá’u’lláh wrongly states: “For instance, consider the substance of copper. Were it to be protected in its own mine from becoming solidified, it would, within the space of seventy years, attain to the state of gold.” Again I ask you to wonder if someone who could not pass a basic high school science class would be God’s messenger.
> COLONIALISM:
You are Cuban. You understand injustice and political movements. Take a realistic and close look at what the Bahai movement was REALLY about and its links to British Colonialism.
> DID ABDUL BAHA REPRESENT HIMSELF TO BE A “PROPHET”?
Yes, many times. For example Google: “‘Abdu’l-Bahá, the Bahá’í Prophet, Speaks at Stanford University” (a newspaper article of his interview), which is also posted on an official Bahai website. Here is another quote for you — the double-quotes are from the newspaper in 1912: ‘About 26 converts of the Bahá’í movement in Spokane are awaiting definite news whether ‘Abdu’l-Bahá Abbas, “prophet of God and exponent of the universal religion” ….’ (Source: Spokane Washington Daily Chronicle, September 17, 1912: Reprinted on Official Bahai Site.)
One of the myths of the Baha’i movement is that it was free of racism, however, this is what ‘Abdu’l-Baha had to say about Black Africans in his own words:
“The inhabitants of a country life Africa are all as wandering savages
and wild animals. They lack intelligence and knowledge; all are
uncivilized; not one civilized and a wise man is not to be found among
them. … No matter how much the shell is educated (or polished), it can never become a
radiant pearl. The black stone will not become the world-illumined
gem.” (Tablets of ‘Abdu’l-Baha p.567 vv.3-4)
Another thing that the Bahai leadership doesn’t tell followers is that The Báb received the death penalty for buying and selling slaves, which has strictly been forbidden in Iran since the time of Cyrus the Great, more than 2,000 years ago.
Again, I urge you to take seriously the linkages of the Bahai movement to foreign colonialism, and to not disregard the actual words of the leaders of the movement.
Dear César,
> YOUR POINT: “You don’t want to hear what the Catholic Church and Christians in general said about Islam and Muhammad.”
* MY REPLY: What the Catholic Church said or didn’t say is not relevant to the national security concerns Iran has in relation to the Bahai-Leadership’s partnering with British Colonialism.
> YOUR POINT: “They claimed to have a revelation from God and that is an anathema for the leaders of Islam and you know why. That is the real reason for the persecution of Bahá’ís in Iran and other Muslim countries.”
* MY REPLY: That’s what they teach Bahai followers to say, but now that you are here you can see that for 160 years Bahaism was rejected in Iran for secular national security concerns also, and that rejection was by Iranians of many faiths (not just Muslims). The current government of Iran was not even in power 160 years ago when Bahaism was rejected; Iran also used to have a Non-Islamic government and Bahaism was still rejected by the overwhelming majority of the Iranian people. What you are repeating to me are the Bahai-Leadership’s talking points (what they teach people to say): The leaders don’t want Bahai followers to know that there were many reasons (both non-religious and religious) that led to the rejection of the Bahai movement. It’s easy for the Bahai leaders to try to just blame the rejection on ‘Muslim intolerance,’ but then that fails to explain why Iranian-Zoroastrians, -Christians, -Atheists, -Jews, and others rejected Bahaism on national security grounds for 160 years. One game the Bahai leadership plays is that they pretend to speak for Iranians, and then they say why Iranians’ reasons are bad for rejecting Bahaism. Iranians speak for Iranians —not the Bahai Universal House of Justice in Israel. We Iranians know the full range of objections to the Bahai movement: In a country of 80 million people it is simplistic to think there is just 1 type of objection to the Bahai movement. (Think about it: Do all people object to a political candidate for exactly the same reason? Of course not: people have many different reasons.) And the game the Bahai leadership plays is this: Cesar, pretend your doctor told you not to eat red meat because it is bad for your heart. When people ask you why you don’t eat meat, you tell them that your DOCTOR said it is bad for your heart. Then someone comes along and says that César will not eat red meat because he hates Chinese food and hates Chinese people. Does César speak for César or is it the job of someone else to say what your objections to red meat are? That is the game the Bahai leadership plays: it pretends to truthfully represent the objections Iranians have to the Bahai movement, and then it says why those objections are wrong (the Bahai leadership plays BOTH parts in the debate to make itself look like its points are the right ones). If the Bahai leadership was sincere, the leadership (not followers like you) would go to Iran and let Iranians make their own case for the objections they have in a public debate with the Bahai leadership. They do not do this because they would lose that debate: Iran is a sovereign country and makes its own decisions about national security issues: Iran’s national security determinations are not the business of a Universal House of Justice in Israel (which is an enemy country to Iran). Moreover, the Bahai religious doctrine of refusing military defense of the nation and following a ‘one world government’ and ‘one world police force’ belief are inconsistent with Iran’s national security objectives on secular grounds in light of past historical injustices like Colonialism. For example, you will never hear Iranian-Zoroastrians try to paint a strong Iranian military as objectionable or refuse to defend Iran as a part of their religious doctrine. Bahaism simply has elements that are not compatible with Iran’s national security requirements.
Dear friend:
I wasn’t going to write anymore but I decided to reply to the following points in your message:
1) You said correctly:
Bahá’u’lláh wrote, “Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute.” [Source: Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh. Wilmette, Illinois, USA: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. ISBN 0-87743-187-6.]
And then you continued:
Bahá’u’lláh did not even understand astrobiology — he thought there was life on other planets! Does that sound like someone who is God’s messenger?
Well, I wondered also about those words and of course questioned myself about them.
Rather recently many new planets have been found and many showing up almost weekly. Up to June this year they have found 786 planets, 778 exo-planets, outside of the solar system. Now we have to find out if there is life in them. Since we have found life on earth under extreme conditions, many scientists consider that there is possibility of finding it, but of course we have to wait.
Please see an excellent diagram of the new planets found at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jun/21/space-exoplanets-graphic-visualisation
And extreme life on earth at: http://www.calacademy.org/exhibits/xtremelife/life_on_earth.php
2) You said:
What the Catholic Church said or didn’t say is not relevant to the national security concerns Iran has in relation to the Bahai-Leadership’s partnering with British Colonialism
.
If I mentioned what the Catholic Faith said was only to show the personal struggle I had in order to accept Islam and the Bahá’í Faith. I had to swim against the current.
I can only assure you that we Bahá’is have to obey the laws of the country we live in. It is an article of faith. We don’t go against the government. The reasons for that make sense and are beautiful because it has to do with being honest and not being a hypocrite to anybody. To mention more reasons will make this note very long.
3) You said:
Dear César, As both you and I know Abdu’l Baha is considered a holy messenger by Bahai’s and he is Bahá’u’lláh’s son and chosen leader of Baha’is.
Please, I beg you, to correct this. Abdu’l-Bahá is not considered a holy messenger. The holy messengers are the Báb (October 20, 1819 – July 9, 1850) and Bahá’u’lláh (12 November 1817 – 29 May 1892). The Báb was killed by a firing squad in Tabriz and Bahá’u’lláh died in ‘Akka,
Palestine, where He was exiled in August 1868. He didn’t go there by His own will.
Please, I again beg you to note that at that time the area was Ottoman Palestine. It had nothing to do with Israel or Zionism. If the center of the Bahá’í Faith is there is a consequence of that exile.
This earth with all of us inside is a grain of sand in the midst of a huge universe. We have to learn to get together.
All the best,
César
Sorry, I didn; t see the previous message had already appeared and you had posted a new message. Sorry
That’s okay. I want you to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUmgZMYzQBo
- These are the people the Baha’is Leaders work with in Israel today and those are the types of activities the Bahai leaders say nothing about.
I have one question for you: Please answer honestly.
QUESTION: Does Iran have the legal right to say that any religious movement that stays silent about that kind of behavior is dangerous under Iranian law?
(Please don’t make up your question: Just answer that one honestly. Thanks.)
Dear friend:
First of all let me make it very clear that my blog’s title is “Comentarios personales” which in English means “Personal commentaries”. What I write here is my personal point of view.
Your question is:
QUESTION: Does Iran have the legal right to say that any religious movement that stays silent about that kind of behavior is dangerous under Iranian law?
And you ask me:
(Please don’t make up your question: Just answer that one honestly. Thanks.)
The government, any government, has the legal right to do whatever wants to do following the laws of the country. But really, and I say this very respectfully: the government might not have the moral right to persecute any individual or group for staying silent.
A similar situation happened in Cuba years ago, not now. Let me explain.
The central theme of the Bahá’í message is “Unity in Diversity”. We bahá’ís go to extremes, I admit, to follow this principle and it might appear strange to the outside community. We are required not to participate in politics, because you will have to take sides and will create divisions in the community or the country at large. If there are differences of opinion, we take it easy and try to resolve the problem through a method called consultation. It works, at times not as fast as the parties would like (it drive you crazy sometimes) but it is the best to avoid disunity and confrontation.
Disunity, suspicion and confrontation is the method generally employed everywhere and we work differently.
At the beginning of the revolution in Cuba, in the heat of the fervor, the bahá’í students at the high schools or university ran into difficulties because they didn’t ran wild shouting in favor of the government and politics is NEVER discussed at bahá’í gatherings. I know it might be difficult to believe but it is true.
I have lived in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Canada. The first two are very politically polarized and you would expect that something would be mentioned but no. It is considered kind of a sin if you do that. In Canada I lived in Ottawa but visited Montreal with certain frequency. Politics was not discussed there.
Hope I answered your question.
César
Dear friend,
During my youth I realized the tremendous crime committed against the Jews in Germany I was dumbfounded for years. I couldn’t believe that such a thing happened. I asked myself: “If this was done by people from an “advanced culture”, well educated, lovers of good music, art and sciences; what could be expected of other “less developed “countries?. How could humanity get so low as to kill men women and children in gas chambers? And now some people even deny the Holocaust.
It was only when I went to study in Canada that a fellow student, a German from Bavaria, answered my questions.
Basically he told me that little by little people believed or wanted to believe what the government said about the Jews. They had Jewish friends and neighbors and when the Gestapo took them away, very few wanted to get involved and preferred to accept the government position. They fell into the trap of rationalization. It is easy to get into that. I have seen it in Cuba.
I think people in Iran are behaving towards the Bahá’ís and the Bahá’í Faith the same way the Germans behaved towards the Jews. To say that the Faith is not a religion but a political movement and that it is rejected on national security grounds as you said is really a distortion of the truth. We don’t have any political or economic power. Thousands of its followers were martyred in the early days, their properties confiscated, their cemeteries desecrated and now the same thing is happening at a smaller scale. Many Bahá’ís are not even allowed to study at universities. To say the opposite is to hide from the facts.
If the Bahá’í Center is on Mount Carmel in Haifa is because Bahá’u’lláh was exile there when it was Ottoman Palestine and not because we have some strange connections with Israel.
César
Cesar, your comparison of the way Baha’is are treated in Iran to the way the Nazis treated the Jews is spurious on multiple counts, but it is obviously the kind of propaganda your Zionist handlers want you to spin. First of all, there has been no mass deportation of Baha’is from Iran. Baha’is have not been put into concentration camps or gassed en masse. There are no specific Nuremberg style laws in Iran which specifically mention Baha’is. Baha’is have not been walled up into ghettos like the Jews were in Warsaw. There have been no comparable mass killings, etc. Frankly, when the facts are carefully scrutinized the Baha’is have had it relatively better than practically every other minority or ethnic group in Iran at odds with the present regime; and for all the propaganda directed against it by the AIPAC supported Baha’i machine in the West, the regime has been relatively restrained towards the Baha’is compared to what it could have done.
Since 1979 less than 300 people all up have been executed by the regime which the Baha’is have claimed as their number. The regime claims that over 2/3 of that number were actually executed – and that during the first years of the revolution – for economic crimes of corruption and not specifically for being Baha’is. The current Yaran members in prison have not been executed, and from what I hear they have been treated far better than most political prisoners. Many of the recent arrests of Baha’is in Iran have been over the BIHE (Baha’i Institute for Higher Education) because the regime fears on justified grounds that this underground institute is not about education at all but actually a front for espionage. Since BIHE was actually emulated from a model setup by the Zionist organization Bna’i Brith and since several Zionist organizations closely linked with Bna’i Brith had direct input in the manner in which BIHE was setup and is presently operating, on this issue as well the regime may have a point. Even Hamid Dabashi who briefly supported the Baha’is over BIHE no longer appears to be supporting BIHE anymore after figuring out what it’s really about.
That aside, the pattern of Islamophobia and the wholesale, institutionalized persecution of Muslims worldwide since even before 911 in the West fits more the comparison with the Nazis than anything the IRI has done to the Baha’is.
To César:
Comparing the Baha’is (an ideology) to Jews (an ethnicity/race) is misplaced. Let me give you examples of ideologies: witchcraft, communism, nudism, Al Qaeda-ism, Racism, etc.
Jews have certain shared ideologies, but more importantly they also identify as a racial/ethnic group – They have immutable* characteristics like Black people or Chinese people (* things that are impossible to change). Black people and Chinese people can’t stop being Black or Chinese. They are born that way, they will die that way, and that’s why discrimination is bad because they cannot choose or change their physical characteristics — However, Baha’is can change their beliefs. This is why it is incorrect to compare Jews and Baha’is.
Ideologies are routinely stated to bad: People say communism is bad all the time; people say satanism is bad all the time, and so on.
Nevertheless, don’t get too caught up in any of this and miss the main point: Iran has national security laws and the Baha’i movement has violated those laws from its inception and is an ideology structured to violate Iran’s laws, as evidenced by its primary leaders’ collusion with Colonial Britain (among other things). If Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, or Zartosht had colluded with Colonial Britain, violated Iran’s finance and espionage laws, and cobbled together a group of people to spread propaganda about iran 24 hours a day, you can be sure that they would also be in the same legal category as Abdul Baha and the Baha’i movement. The Baha’i movement made a CHOICE to include these behaviors against Iran’s national security as a part of its origins; and that’s a choice Bahai’s will have to deal with, and you cannot blame Iran for that.
Also, where is Bahai Universal House of Justice’s condemnation of the Israeli governments racial and religious discrimination against Palestinians? Against Christians? Against Ethiopian Jews?
Lastly you must watch the video of a former member of a Bahai Spiritual Assembly state what the propaganda goals of the Bahai movement are against Iran – this is a fact: http://iranianfacebook.com/2012/08/05/tactics-of-the-bahai-cult-revealed-حمله-بهائی-به-ایران/
History repeats itself?
You can always pick on some events in the life of an individual and turn it around to make it appear whatever you want to mean.
It was done by the Jews regarding Jesus; it was done by the Jews and the Christians regarding Muhammad; and now the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims are doing it regarding the Báb and Bahá’u’ lláh.
I hope we will not go into a full fledged war as before!
César, remember when I said that Iran has national security considerations regarding the Bahai movement that have nothing to do with Islam?
I want you to notice that you keep regressing into the ‘Muslim persecution’ theory the Bahai leaders try to sell everyone on. Again, there are NON-religious reasons the Bahai movement was rejected in Iran. Iran permits other religions: Zoroastrianism is lawful in Iran, Christianity is lawful in Iran, Judaism is lawful in Iran in Iran. These other faiths have an officially recognized status — the Bahai movement does not.
I will put up an article that will demonstrate some national security concerns in Iran regarding the Bahai movement in a few days – You will quickly see that it has nothing to do with Islam or religion.
Dear friend:
You said on August 2
:
“Bahá’u’lláh also did not understand metallurgy or basic sciences relating to precious metals: In Kitab-i-Iqan or the Book of Certitude, Bahá’u’lláh claims that copper, in a span of 70 years would be converted to gold. Bahá’u’lláh wrongly states: “For instance, consider the substance of copper. Were it to be protected in its own mine from becoming solidified, it would, within the space of seventy years, attain to the state of gold.” Again I ask you to wonder if someone who could not pass a basic high school science class would be God’s messenger”
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I agree with you, that’s a tough one to accept but consider this:
1) I think it is important to realize that the Messengers of God don’t appear in the world to teach us about physics or mathematics or any other field of science. Their role is to transform the hearts of people, to change the conditions of the individual and the society. When we look at the big picture, we find that is what all the Messengers of God have done. For example, Muhammad took a bunch of warring people and transform them into the most advanced society of the time. (I particularly like what He said to His followers about going to China to acquire knowledge. The priests would have said “don’t go there they are infidels”)
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2) Science and religion complement each other. Science tells us that 13.7 billion years ago occurred the big bang where the universe was created. At the beginning only massless particles, then they acquired mass through the recently discovered “god particle”, then hydrogen and helium atoms condensed into nebulae, stars, and supernovas with their massive explosions produced the heavier atoms that we find today.
The amount of hydrogen and helium in the whole universe is still basically the same as in the moment of the big bang: 75% hydrogen and 25% helium by mass. Even in our sun we find basically the same percentage composition with approximately 67 heavier atoms than helium comprising a very low amount.
At the LHC at CERN, physicists have collided protons in order to find the Higgs Bosom reproducing the conditions at the big bang. We will see what the future brings with such development in science.
Carl Sagan made famous the fact that the universe including us is made of star dust.
All the heavier atoms come from hydrogen. It is possible that copper (lower mass than gold) could be transformed into gold. And during nuclear decay or in nuclear reactors an atom is transformed into another. Why Bahá’u’lláh said that out of the blue, frankly I don’t know but I see the whole picture of the religion and the more important transformation of the hearts and lives of people through His writings. Before, some Messengers have said similar things that at the time nobody considered possible.
God does whatever He wants. I don’t pretend to know what Bahá’u'lláh meant with that.
César
César, with replies like this you are making yourself and your fellow Baha’is look silly.
Dear César:
I appreciate your personal theory on astrophysics, but Mirza Nuri (a/k/a “Bahá’u’lláh”) said aging copper for 70 years in a special mine will turn it into a different metal (Gold) — which clearly is wrong. Someone that is sent from God, one would think, should know this. Nevertheless, Bahá’u’lláh didn’t endorse your personal theory of astrophysics.
The most important thing you wrote, I believe, is this:
“I don’t pretend to know what Bahá’u’lláh meant with that.”
Then how can you rely on anything “Bahá’u’lláh” wrote? Why do you need “Bahá’u’lláh” to have certain views about the world or justice or science? You don’t.
There are poets that wrote much nicer things than Bahá’u’lláh – look at the section on Persian Poetry (English translations of Rumi). Did you know that some of the ancient Persian poets wrote theories of sciences that are widely accepted in the world today?
See Omar Khayyám; you may forget about Bahá’u’lláh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khayyám
Listen to a poem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSEFYPNYnLY&playnext=1&list=PL4499AB957E035146&feature=results_main
You are engaging in selective reasoning, Cesar, and are evading answering the question. You Baha’is do this in every context. The issues raised, however, stand.
“You can always pick on some events in the life of an individual and turn it around to make it appear whatever you want to mean.”
Exactly. That is what you Baha’is have done for the past 147 years of your history day in, day out.
The header of the article says that ‘Abdu’l-Baha was on the payroll of the British and yet nothing in the article refers to this claim, there is only reference to a knighthood for valuable services rendered to the British Government, Baha’is claim that these were humanitarian efforts such as the distribution of food, sceptics may well doubt this so perhaps it helps to see a list of people who received such a Knighthood can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Honorary_Knights_Commander_of_the_Order_of_the_British_Empire -
…it is clearly not a list of people on the payroll of the British goverment!
1. Wikipedia is manipulated by the Bahai Internet Agency & deliberately omits the Official Government Records of Colonial Britain. I also have additional records in my possession that will further be published.
2. Colonial Britain was not in the business of “Humanitarian” efforts – It was in the business of plundering, raping, enslavement and occupation. It’s hardly something to be proud of for the Bahai leader to have been a collaborator of Colonial Britain, which caused a thousand holocausts in a thousand different lands.
3. Individuals that have worked for Bahai governing bodies have revealed the propaganda efforts of Bahai leaders on video:
http://iranianfacebook.com/2012/08/05/tactics-of-the-bahai-cult-revealed-حمله-بهائی-به-ایران/
4. Consider yourself lucky that you comment here while Bahai websites highly edit and screen comments to hide facts. Can I come to official Bahai websites and post my materials? Think about it. It shows their duplicity. I encourage everyone to try it.
Well said.
These people insult everyone’s intelligence, including their Zionist patrons, with the transparent tales they spin.
Thank you for not considering my question to be a threat, perhaps you could answer it, why does the heading suggest the Abdu’l-Baha was on the payroll of the British, is there any evidence to support this claim?
Suggest an official Baha’i web site that allows comments where you feel that a question would be censored and I will indeed try.
TO TERRY:
1. Can I come to official Bahai websites and post further evidence of British Colonial collusion with the Bahai leaders? Why aren’t the leaders of the Bahais on this website addressing that question in addition to you being given a chance to address it?
2. PAYMENT = Misappropriated Palestinian land, tax exemptions, better treatment than others, etc. While Palestinians were killed by Colonial Britain the Colonial British gave the Bahais a piece of their spoils for assistance with colonialism. Abdul Baha rendered services to the racist and imperialistic Colonial British government and they rewarded him further with a K.B.E. (KBE = Knight-Commander of British Empire). Do you know how many people would pay for that or accept it as compensation?
Everyone knows there are many ways of paying someone. What was Abdul Baha’s day job? The primary evidence of it is “rendering services to the Colonial British Empire.” That’s where most of Bahai assets came from – colonialism; it certainly did NOT come from the bank accounts of people in Iran or his own bank account.
I see, so because you do not know how ‘Abdu’l-Baha or the Baha’i Faith was funded, and because he received an honorary knighthood which, looking at the list of other recipients and on the basis that it does not give any entitlements, I doubt was perceived to have any financial value, you assert that ‘Abdu’l-Baha was on Britain’s payroll. So, in short, there is no evidence, it is just a hunch. But I thank you for clarifying that.
I can’t answer your question about the Baha’i web sites, I have offered to test your theory if you give me an example.
TO TERRY (our pro-Bahai propagandist):
Please read this carefully: Abdu’l Baha received AND accepted a “knighthood” (as you put it) from the RACIST, IMPERIALISTIC, OCCUPYING G-O-V-E-R-N-M-E-N-T of Colonial Britain (There goes the myth that Baha’is don’t involve themselves in politics.) You see the people with the chains arounds their necks in the photos above? Those are the people that were the forced subjects of Colonial Britain and had their land, resources, wealth, women, and children exploited by Colonial Britain and its lackeys. Apparently photos are not good enough for you Terry – but most courts consider them evidence. Your ‘Abdul Baha’ was a collaborator with one of the most despicable and evil governments to have existed. Perhaps you don’t think accepting an “honorary knighthood” from Charles Manson or the Apartheid Government of South Africa is not a big deal, but most people do think it is a big deal. The unimpeachable fact is that your ‘Abdul Baha’ was an immoral and evil man and a proven Colonial-Collaborator. It should not surprise you that people like him were kicked out of Iran or that people dislike him for his opportunistic collaborations with racist and exploitative powers.
The Baha’i claim is vacuous and without foundation. It is propaganda and myth-making just as the sanitized and historical whitewash being peddled on Wackopedia as history you linked above. The Baha’is have manufactured a history around Abbas Effendi’s knighthood that is not borne out by a single archival document or verifiable historical fact. If this isn’t the case, then why have the Baha’is refused to release the actual knighthood certificate which specifies what he was awarded the knighthood for? I went searching for this certificate in the British National Archives and – besides being given the bureaucratic run around from hell – was finally told point blank that it was re-classified after the Court of St. James (which keeps all such certificates for a number of years) had declassified it in the 1950s.
Here are two declassified documents by the British National Archives and originally from the British Foreign Office showing Abbas Effendi’s financial ties to the British establishment:
http://bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home
Apparently the Bahai Propaganda Agency doesn’t consider hundreds of millions of dollars in property redistributed from Palestinians to Bahais or multi-million dollar israeli tax exemptions to be “payments.” Who else did Britain and Israel give such robust perks to? The Hari Krishnas?
So I read the above articles and they say that the Baha’is in Persia asked British representatives if they could help them send money to ‘Abdu’l-Baha because the bank of Persia would give bank drafts. It does not give the response of the British government to this request.
I am British and hence curious, but it seems that you have gone to a lot of effort to prove this theory and found nothing of any real note.
I note a mistake in my comment above… the document says that the Persian Baha’is said that the Bank of Persia would *not* give bank drafts, which is why they were asking the Biritish representative if they could help them send their funds to ‘Abdu’l-Baha/
To Terry,
Thanks for admitting the Baha’is were violating the financial laws of Iran (a sovereign country); and thanks for admitting that the Baha’is engaged in secret political activity through back channels with Colonial Britain (something they denied doing until the documents showed up); and thanks for admitting that Baha’is try to strike back-room deals with colonial powers (which clearly is against Iran’s national security interests). Fundamentally, what you seem to fail to agree to is that Iran has laws that Baha’is (and everyone else) are supposed to follow and abide by. Since Baha’is don’t want to observe Iran’s laws, there is no choice but to treat them as lawbreakers, potential lawbreakers, and collaborators with foreign powers.
Your words Terry:
“The document says that the Persian Baha’is said that the Bank of Persia would *not* give bank drafts, which is why they were asking the Biritish representative if they could help them send their funds to ‘Abdu’l-Baha” – Terry
A tip for you: Iran’s court of appeals is not Great Britain; Circumventing the law by seeking the assistance of a Colonial Power means you get tried for jeopardizing finance laws and collusion with a hostile foreign power.
Abdu’l Baha Violated Serious Laws in Iran; The Bahai leaders should teach its followers that: http://iranianfacebook.com/2012/08/05/tactics-of-the-bahai-cult-revealed-حمله-بهائی-به-ایران/
This is too funny, I have to thank you for your most entertaining reply. I don’t think you are being serious but just in case you are let me remind you that I am in no position to be admitting anything about Baha’is and Iranian law, I am quoting documents posted here and asking if there is any proof for the claims that my government were funding what you call a fake religion, I don’t know what the law is on money transfers in any country now, let alone your country 100 years ago, and what i quoted from the link Wahid Azal provided does not say whether my government helped the Persian Baha’is send money abroad, it only says that the Baha’is asked them if they could help.
Thanking you again both for taking the time to tell me of your thoughts and for entertaining me with your last reply. Terry.
I quote Dr. Said Khan in reply to Terry’s typically snide Baha’i intellectual dishonesty
From Mission Problems in New Persia, 1926, p. 83, 87 and 89 quoted by William McElwee Miller in The Baha’i Faith: It’s History and Teachings, 1973, p. 289.
Quote
“…There is no conscience with them [ i.e. the Baha'is], they keep to no principle, they tell you what is untrue, ignoring or denying undoubted historical facts, and this is the character of both the leader and the led…As to morality and honesty, the whole system has proved disappointing…I have been in contact with many Baha’is, and have had dealings with many and have tested many, and unfortunately I have met not a single one who could be called honest or faithful in the full sense of these words…”
Dr Sa’eed Khan [was] a highly-respected physician…who had as a doctor treated the second widow of the Bab, and had for a lifetime known intimately both Babis [i.e. Bayanis] and Baha’is in Tehran and Hamadan.
TO TERRY:
Your explanation as to whether the money was transferred or not is unavailing. An ‘attempted crime’ though it may not be successful is still a crime; what Abdul Baha did is a high crime in Iran. And you will note, as admitted in the British report itself, that the Government of Iran prohibited what Abdul Baha was doing, yet the British report notes discussions to circumvent Iranian law and seeks assistance for that purpose. That’s a crime. Full stop.
Read up on the law of attempt, and remember: Iran is a sovereign country with its own laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt
Insults against me and my country aside, you speak of these people attempting to break the law but do not suggest which law or how. I find your comments against my countrymen and yours irrational, I am unsure if it is a form of humour or you attempt to trick readers into believing there is some evidence through all this unsupported allusion. Either way I don’t think I have an interest in following this thread any more but thank you for your time.
Terry, your countrymen and establishment have a lot to answer for. There has been no criminal regime in history worse than the criminal regime of the British empire. A pile of rocks in the North Atlantic indeed.
“as admitted in the British report itself, that the Government of Iran prohibited what Abdul Baha was doing”
This is neither stated nor alluded to in the document that was linked to, the document states that asking the goverment of Iran whether the British should assist in the transport of funds from the Baha’is in that country to ‘Abdu’l-Baha would be sensitive due to the religious nature of the situation, there is no reference to legality whatsoever, again you seem to either be attempting humour or deception and I am starting to suspect the latter. Either way I leave you to your fun.
TO TERRY:
The UK has no authority to make determinations about Iranian law — Iranians don’t care what people living on a pile of rocks in the North Atlantic think about whether a law is fair or unfair.
And did you answer my question: Can I come onto Official Bahai Websites and present my evidence or do you want to censor people from being exposed to facts and debate?
To Terry:
You write: “you speak of these people [Bahai leaders] attempting to break the law but do not suggest which law or how.”
1. Is it the responsibility of a Non-Iranian, such as yourself, to determine whether Abdul Baha violated Iranian law or is it for the Iranian courts and national security services to make that determination?
2. One of the former leaders of a Bahai spiritual assembly in this video* linked to below admits that the Bahai movement orchestrates propaganda campaigns against Iran. Two questions: (a) Did you watch the video? And (b) Do you agree that Iran has laws for these types of situations that Iranian courts and Iranian citizens have sole authority to interpret and apply?
* VIDEO:
http://iranianfacebook.com/2012/08/05/tactics-of-the-bahai-cult-revealed-حمله-بهائی-به-ایران/